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	<title>Comments on: &#8216;The Emergent Church&#8217;: A Dangerous Counterfeit</title>
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	<link>http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2008/04/28/the-emergent-church-a-dangerous-counterfeit/</link>
	<description>To reach people from all walks of life into the Kingdom of God through prayer and action</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2008/04/28/the-emergent-church-a-dangerous-counterfeit/#comment-121588</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 06:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Greg,

Thankyou for that stimulating article. There are a couple of points that I would like to briefly note. First, I do have some of the same concerns you do regarding the emreging (or emergent) church: there does seem to be a dilution of the gospel in order to speak, or "converse" more readily with culture, which is somewhat worrying. However, I would say that this is partly a reaction to the often rigid and uninspired ways the church has often preached the gospel. Even though I believe it is an extreme reaction, it is perhaps something we need to take note of. The church has from time to time been guilty of failing to actually engage with the surrounding culture. Indeed, in an effort to not "be of the world," I think the church has often forgotten to be radically "in the world." On this point, I would use Christ himself as an example. He didn't dilute the good news of the gospel, but he radically identified with those whom he served - humanity. John Chapter 1 sums it up eloquently - "The word became flesh." As the ones who are meant to model Jesus here one earth, maybe we have to do a better job of living incarnational lives. Though I don't subscribe to the ideas critiqued in the above article, they might pave the way for those in "established" churches to reflect upon the way we speak to the prevailing culture. 

The second point I would like to raise is the very brief comment you made regarding "global warming." True, some Christians are simply interested in social activism, without the concomitant commitment to preaching the gospel. However, it seems that your comment reveals a disregard for the pressing issues of our time - war, environmental degradation, poverty, etc. - and the advocacy of an escapist conception of the gospel. Perhaps I am reading far too much into your comment (and if I have, I apologise), but we as Christians have not been saved simply so we can escape this rotting world, and live far away in a far off place called "heaven." We as Christians are saved so that we can begin to reflect the glory of God into all creation, including - and especially - those who are uniquely made in his image (as you put it so well). That means preaching the gospel, certainly, but it also means doing what we can to minister the redemptive - and recreative - love of God to the world. This is not to advocate the old "social gospel," but to recognise that God is in the business of new creation. With that in mind, he is not going to let this world burn, but wants to redeem and restore it, using his people as partners in this cosmic project. That is why things like global warming, war and poverty are important, and we as Christians ought to bring our voice to those issues. None of this is to deny the reality of eternal loss, because I also believe that there will be some who will spend eternity apart from God, and that should motivate us to proclaim the gospel. But we should also proclaim the gospel because of a firm commitment to God's desire to bring about new creation in this world - of which Christ is the firstfruits, and we are participants - and flood it with glory.

Christ be with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<p>Thankyou for that stimulating article. There are a couple of points that I would like to briefly note. First, I do have some of the same concerns you do regarding the emreging (or emergent) church: there does seem to be a dilution of the gospel in order to speak, or &#8220;converse&#8221; more readily with culture, which is somewhat worrying. However, I would say that this is partly a reaction to the often rigid and uninspired ways the church has often preached the gospel. Even though I believe it is an extreme reaction, it is perhaps something we need to take note of. The church has from time to time been guilty of failing to actually engage with the surrounding culture. Indeed, in an effort to not &#8220;be of the world,&#8221; I think the church has often forgotten to be radically &#8220;in the world.&#8221; On this point, I would use Christ himself as an example. He didn&#8217;t dilute the good news of the gospel, but he radically identified with those whom he served - humanity. John Chapter 1 sums it up eloquently - &#8220;The word became flesh.&#8221; As the ones who are meant to model Jesus here one earth, maybe we have to do a better job of living incarnational lives. Though I don&#8217;t subscribe to the ideas critiqued in the above article, they might pave the way for those in &#8220;established&#8221; churches to reflect upon the way we speak to the prevailing culture. </p>
<p>The second point I would like to raise is the very brief comment you made regarding &#8220;global warming.&#8221; True, some Christians are simply interested in social activism, without the concomitant commitment to preaching the gospel. However, it seems that your comment reveals a disregard for the pressing issues of our time - war, environmental degradation, poverty, etc. - and the advocacy of an escapist conception of the gospel. Perhaps I am reading far too much into your comment (and if I have, I apologise), but we as Christians have not been saved simply so we can escape this rotting world, and live far away in a far off place called &#8220;heaven.&#8221; We as Christians are saved so that we can begin to reflect the glory of God into all creation, including - and especially - those who are uniquely made in his image (as you put it so well). That means preaching the gospel, certainly, but it also means doing what we can to minister the redemptive - and recreative - love of God to the world. This is not to advocate the old &#8220;social gospel,&#8221; but to recognise that God is in the business of new creation. With that in mind, he is not going to let this world burn, but wants to redeem and restore it, using his people as partners in this cosmic project. That is why things like global warming, war and poverty are important, and we as Christians ought to bring our voice to those issues. None of this is to deny the reality of eternal loss, because I also believe that there will be some who will spend eternity apart from God, and that should motivate us to proclaim the gospel. But we should also proclaim the gospel because of a firm commitment to God&#8217;s desire to bring about new creation in this world - of which Christ is the firstfruits, and we are participants - and flood it with glory.</p>
<p>Christ be with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel</title>
		<link>http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2008/04/28/the-emergent-church-a-dangerous-counterfeit/#comment-119479</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/?p=1172#comment-119479</guid>
		<description>Amen..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen..</p>
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		<title>By: Thetruthwillsetyoufree</title>
		<link>http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/2008/04/28/the-emergent-church-a-dangerous-counterfeit/#comment-118773</link>
		<dc:creator>Thetruthwillsetyoufree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 14:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/?p=1172#comment-118773</guid>
		<description>Isn't this just the product of disillusionment in the Church?  Many have been manipulated, and are being manipulated by men whose agenda is to fill seats to further their Church careers. People are waking up, and I think the recent televangelist investigation in the US by Charles Grassley, (a Christian himself) is a reflection of an ever-growing suspicion of these money driven ministries. Yes, we must be wary of cultic elements within the growing "home Church' and "emerging Church" movements, but on the same token, we should be even more watchful of such elements in our well established institutionalized denominations. As a member of a Pentecostal Church, I can certainly say that such elements are well ingrained in our dogma, and widely accepted, as a result of generational indoctrination. I believe further fragmentation of the church will inevitably bring down the institutional structures, which in turn will free those who earnestly seek God back to the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and according to scripture we are all saints and priests. Acts 17:24 also tells us "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS", so why are we imprisoned in the four walls of our Churches, and subject to a bureaucratic apparatus that has no Biblical basis?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t this just the product of disillusionment in the Church?  Many have been manipulated, and are being manipulated by men whose agenda is to fill seats to further their Church careers. People are waking up, and I think the recent televangelist investigation in the US by Charles Grassley, (a Christian himself) is a reflection of an ever-growing suspicion of these money driven ministries. Yes, we must be wary of cultic elements within the growing &#8220;home Church&#8217; and &#8220;emerging Church&#8221; movements, but on the same token, we should be even more watchful of such elements in our well established institutionalized denominations. As a member of a Pentecostal Church, I can certainly say that such elements are well ingrained in our dogma, and widely accepted, as a result of generational indoctrination. I believe further fragmentation of the church will inevitably bring down the institutional structures, which in turn will free those who earnestly seek God back to the simplicity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and according to scripture we are all saints and priests. Acts 17:24 also tells us &#8220;God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS&#8221;, so why are we imprisoned in the four walls of our Churches, and subject to a bureaucratic apparatus that has no Biblical basis?</p>
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